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| Sanborn Fire Insuance Map Juarez, Mexico c 1902 |
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A search for “Dionisio Trueba Saloon” resulted in finding the photo on the University of Southern California Digital Library. The scene is in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico and the time period 1902-1905. I wondered how these parameters had been determined. I enjoyed viewing some of the other photos in the Digital Library, especially those specific to Juarez. One photo gave the full name on the building located on the lower left as “Demetrio Fonce. Comerciante.” A search for this name merely took me back to the USC Digital Library. 1. The name of the church is “Our Lady of Guadalupe Mission” or “Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe de El Paso del Norte y do los Mansos”. It was dedicated Jan. 15, 1668. One article noted that “the Guadalupe Mission has survived floods, Indian rebellions, war and revolutions.” Checking the current location of the street scene and church on Google Maps proved interesting. My estimate is that the street shown is called Avenida 16 de Septiembre today. (16th of September is a Mexican holiday marking its independence) I believe that in viewing the church in the photo, we are facing towards the west. Clues are: 1. the short shadows of the buildings. 2. the location of the mountains 3. the east/west direction of the modern day street. One landmark just east of the church and along Avenida 16 de Sept. is the former Customs House (#209). It is now the Museo Ex- aduana. I believe the photo was taken across the street from the museum and just a little farther west near the intersection of Ugarte St. and 16 de Septiembre. Don Draper |
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returned to minister among the Piro Indians of Senecu Mission, near modern Socorro,
New Mexico, until his death on January 22, 1673.
Guadalupe Mission is the mother of the El Paso Valley Missions. To the tired traveler
along the Camino Real, it was an important stop for food and rest. During the 1680
Pueblo Revolt in New Mexico, over 2500 Spanish refugees and displaced Indians
received food and shelter at the mission. Until 1692, the pass of the North was the
most northern outpost in in colonial Spain in the New World.
Constructed solely of adobe, the thickness of its walls can be appreciated at the main
and side doors. These doors with their simple portico and Spanish colonial oval
windows known as "Ojo de Buey" (Bull's Eye), have been recently restored following
the original sketches. The ceiling stands out for its artistic quality. The missionaries
came from the Iberian Peninsula where an Arabic influence can be seen in civil and
religious buildings. At the Mission of Guadalupe, one can appreciate the Indian elements
in the rectangular decorations, the braiding, the circular stairs, the toothed profiles and
the serpent pallets carved into each one of the ceiling rafters, sacristy doors,
candlesticks, lectern, and the side chapel.
At the center, the church has a stone altar installed during the last restoration
(1968-71). Under this altar lie the remains of the first settlers. The floor is flagstone.
The
New Mexico, until his death on January 22, 1673.
Guadalupe Mission is the mother of the El Paso Valley Missions. To the tired traveler
along the Camino Real, it was an important stop for food and rest. During the 1680
Pueblo Revolt in New Mexico, over 2500 Spanish refugees and displaced Indians
received food and shelter at the mission. Until 1692, the pass of the North was the
most northern outpost in in colonial Spain in the New World.
Constructed solely of adobe, the thickness of its walls can be appreciated at the main
and side doors. These doors with their simple portico and Spanish colonial oval
windows known as "Ojo de Buey" (Bull's Eye), have been recently restored following
the original sketches. The ceiling stands out for its artistic quality. The missionaries
came from the Iberian Peninsula where an Arabic influence can be seen in civil and
religious buildings. At the Mission of Guadalupe, one can appreciate the Indian elements
in the rectangular decorations, the braiding, the circular stairs, the toothed profiles and
the serpent pallets carved into each one of the ceiling rafters, sacristy doors,
candlesticks, lectern, and the side chapel.
At the center, the church has a stone altar installed during the last restoration
(1968-71). Under this altar lie the remains of the first settlers. The floor is flagstone.
The
1. What city was this picture taken in? 2. What is the name of the church in the background? 3. Name a possible location from where the picture was taken. |
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| If you have a picture you'd like us to feature a picture in a future quiz, please email it to us at CFitzp@aol.com. If we use it, you will receive a free analysis of your picture. You will also receive a free Forensic Genealogy CD or a 10% discount towards the purchase of the Forensic Genealogy book. |
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| If you enjoy our quizzes, don't forget to order our books! Click here. |
| Quiz #311 Results |
| Answer to Quiz #311 June 24, 2011 |
| Answers: 1. Juarez, Mexico 2. La Misión de Nuestra Señora Guadalupe (Our Lady of Guadalupe Mission). 3. A two-story building at the intersection of the modern Calle 16 de Sept, Calle Juarez, and Calle Ugare. |
| Idea for this quiz came from a suggestion submitted by Jan Strickland. |
Church in Juarez, Paso del Norte, Mexico, ca.1905
Photograph of the church in Juarez, Paso del Norte, Mexico, ca.1905. One-story
buildings of the city proper in the foreground. The church is in the background. There
are a few pedestrians and a few horse-drawn wagons in the street in the foreground.
Mountains are visible in the distance. Legible signs include: "Demetrio Fonce,
Comerciante.", "Pulque, 20 centavos Botella", "Saloon, D. Trueba, liquors and Mexican
cigars, keg b[...] 5¢", "Dionisio Trueba. Welcome. Saloon & billiards. Native wines,
Mexican cigars; Cantina y billares, vinos licores. Puros y cigarros importados del pais",
"Calderon Hnos.", "La Barata sucursal de[?] Ortuzar Hnos.
digitallibrary.usc.edu/search/controller/view/chs-m14509.html
Photograph of the church in Juarez, Paso del Norte, Mexico, ca.1905. One-story
buildings of the city proper in the foreground. The church is in the background. There
are a few pedestrians and a few horse-drawn wagons in the street in the foreground.
Mountains are visible in the distance. Legible signs include: "Demetrio Fonce,
Comerciante.", "Pulque, 20 centavos Botella", "Saloon, D. Trueba, liquors and Mexican
cigars, keg b[...] 5¢", "Dionisio Trueba. Welcome. Saloon & billiards. Native wines,
Mexican cigars; Cantina y billares, vinos licores. Puros y cigarros importados del pais",
"Calderon Hnos.", "La Barata sucursal de[?] Ortuzar Hnos.
digitallibrary.usc.edu/search/controller/view/chs-m14509.html
Calle Vicente Guerrero in front of the Plaza de Armas
Standing in front of the Mission is a statue of its founder,
Fray Garcia de San Francisco. Born in Old Castilla, Spain,
he came to the new World in 1629 and established the
Mission of Our Lady of Guadalupe (1659) among the
Manso Indians at the Pass of the North, a strategic location
along the developing El Camino Real.
The bronze sculpture in front of the mission is a small
replica of the one located in downtown El Paso. It depicts
Fray Garcia in the act of building his mission. In his right
hand he holds the lintel bean carved by the Manso Indians
and bearing the name of the mission and year of its
founding At his feet is a cluster of grapes in a Manso
basket, which represents the viticulture and agriculture
Standing in front of the Mission is a statue of its founder,
Fray Garcia de San Francisco. Born in Old Castilla, Spain,
he came to the new World in 1629 and established the
Mission of Our Lady of Guadalupe (1659) among the
Manso Indians at the Pass of the North, a strategic location
along the developing El Camino Real.
The bronze sculpture in front of the mission is a small
replica of the one located in downtown El Paso. It depicts
Fray Garcia in the act of building his mission. In his right
hand he holds the lintel bean carved by the Manso Indians
and bearing the name of the mission and year of its
founding At his feet is a cluster of grapes in a Manso
basket, which represents the viticulture and agriculture
which he introduced into the area.
In December 8, 1659, Fray Garcia de San
Francisco, accompanied by Fray Juan de
Salazar and ten families of Christian
Indians, built a provisional oratory out of
branches and mud and a monastery with a
roof of straw. On January 5, 1662, the
New Church of the Mission of Our Lady
of Guadalupe was inaugurated. One
hundred natives were baptized that day.
Fray Garcia, after 12 years at the Pass,
In December 8, 1659, Fray Garcia de San
Francisco, accompanied by Fray Juan de
Salazar and ten families of Christian
Indians, built a provisional oratory out of
branches and mud and a monastery with a
roof of straw. On January 5, 1662, the
New Church of the Mission of Our Lady
of Guadalupe was inaugurated. One
hundred natives were baptized that day.
Fray Garcia, after 12 years at the Pass,
| Mission of Our Lady of Guadalupe Juarez, Mexico www.juarez-mexico.com/HTML/History/H10-Guadalupe.htm |
| Comments from Our Readers |
Taken from atop a very tall building with a very long lens in El Paso TX!!!!
Dennis Brann
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The Museo Ex-aduana on 16 de Sept. street is the old Customs House (Aduana means
Customs) and is about the right distance, angle, height and age to provide a perch for
the camera. I found it by using Google maps to move away from the front of the
mission and looking for old high structures. Collier Smith
N.B. See my comments at the top of the page. Several people guessed the
Customshouse for the location of the photographer, but I think it was across Calle
del Comercio at the curio shop. - Q. Gen.
*****
So unfair! There weren't all these trees and buildings 100 years ago! Obviously, from
the east and on top of a building that existed back then. Maybe from the roof of the
Museo Historico ex Aduana de Ciudad Juarez? which, if I'm correctly interpreting the
Spanish (a HUGE 'if') started about 1911 - which is still a few years after this picture
was taken. But maybe from whatever building was there before? [Can't wait to see
how others got the correct answer! Debbie Johnson
*****
Let's try for the roof of the Sauer Building or its predecessor, at the corner of 16 de
Sept. and Juarez. If I'm wrong I'll just slip into the Dionisio Saloon and drown my
sorrow. Don Draper
*****
Colleen, here is a graphic indicating from where we think
Dennis Brann
*****
The Museo Ex-aduana on 16 de Sept. street is the old Customs House (Aduana means
Customs) and is about the right distance, angle, height and age to provide a perch for
the camera. I found it by using Google maps to move away from the front of the
mission and looking for old high structures. Collier Smith
N.B. See my comments at the top of the page. Several people guessed the
Customshouse for the location of the photographer, but I think it was across Calle
del Comercio at the curio shop. - Q. Gen.
*****
So unfair! There weren't all these trees and buildings 100 years ago! Obviously, from
the east and on top of a building that existed back then. Maybe from the roof of the
Museo Historico ex Aduana de Ciudad Juarez? which, if I'm correctly interpreting the
Spanish (a HUGE 'if') started about 1911 - which is still a few years after this picture
was taken. But maybe from whatever building was there before? [Can't wait to see
how others got the correct answer! Debbie Johnson
*****
Let's try for the roof of the Sauer Building or its predecessor, at the corner of 16 de
Sept. and Juarez. If I'm wrong I'll just slip into the Dionisio Saloon and drown my
sorrow. Don Draper
*****
Colleen, here is a graphic indicating from where we think
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| Congratulations to Our Winners! Diane Burkett Nicole Blank Rebecca Bare Angela Y. Walton-Raji Tish Olshefski Milene Rawlinson Angel Esparza Chávez Dennis Brann Joshua Kreitzer Margaret Paxton Daniel E. Jolley Collier Smith Steve & Donna Jolley Debbie Johnson Don Draper Stan Read Peter Norton Harold Atchison Mike Dalton Jim Bullock Emily Garber Marilyn Hamill |
Comparing the old map with the modern Google
Map shows that 16 de Sept St. is the modern
equivalent of Calle de Comercio and Calle
Vincente Guerrero is the modern equivalent of
Calle de Porvenir.
Given that the church is on the Plaza, it faces
about east, with Calle de Comericio along the
south edge of the Plaza and Calle de Porveniron
the north edge. The picture was taken along
Calle de Comercio, but about a block or two
away from the second story of a two story
building.
Note that the last building along the right side of
Map shows that 16 de Sept St. is the modern
equivalent of Calle de Comercio and Calle
Vincente Guerrero is the modern equivalent of
Calle de Porvenir.
Given that the church is on the Plaza, it faces
about east, with Calle de Comericio along the
south edge of the Plaza and Calle de Porveniron
the north edge. The picture was taken along
Calle de Comercio, but about a block or two
away from the second story of a two story
building.
Note that the last building along the right side of
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Surfing on the key phrase "old map of Juarez" or something like that (I can't remember
how I got there), will bring up the Sanborn Fire Insurance Map for Juarez for 1905.
www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/sanborn/ciudad_juarez_1.jpg
how I got there), will bring up the Sanborn Fire Insurance Map for Juarez for 1905.
www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/sanborn/ciudad_juarez_1.jpg
A Google search on the keywords "Dionisio Saloon and Billiards" will lead to:
digitallibrary.usc.edu/search/controller/view/chs-m13981.html , where you will
discover that the picture was taken in Juarez, Mexico.
According to Google Street View, the Church of Our Lady of Guadaloupe is located
between 16 de Sept St. and Vincente Guerrero St. The X marks its location on the map
below.
digitallibrary.usc.edu/search/controller/view/chs-m13981.html , where you will
discover that the picture was taken in Juarez, Mexico.
According to Google Street View, the Church of Our Lady of Guadaloupe is located
between 16 de Sept St. and Vincente Guerrero St. The X marks its location on the map
below.
the street has an awning. This must be
the awning shown in your map at the
corner of 430 Calle de Comercio.
The Calderon and Dionisio buildings in the
foreground to the right are pointing at an
angle to the camera as the edge of the
street widens out to the right at an angle.
I think the Calderon building is the first in
a row of buildings, so I think it was
located at 421 Calle de Comercio. The
picture was taken from the first two story
the awning shown in your map at the
corner of 430 Calle de Comercio.
The Calderon and Dionisio buildings in the
foreground to the right are pointing at an
angle to the camera as the edge of the
street widens out to the right at an angle.
I think the Calderon building is the first in
a row of buildings, so I think it was
located at 421 Calle de Comercio. The
picture was taken from the first two story
building after that, which must have been the curio shop at 422 Calle de Comercio.
The Dionisio building must have been located at 310 Calle de Uguarte.
The only thing I can't figure out is that there seems to be a patch of ground between
the two story building where the photographer is located and the Dionisio building but
that doesn't show up on the map. The Curio shop and the Dionisio building don't have
a gap. They are butted up against each other.
So I think the picture was taken from the roof of the curio shop. The only other
possibility would be from the bank building, but in this case, you'd see the two story
curio shop in the foreground but you don't.
Today, the curio shop at the intersection of Calle Juarez, Calle 16 de Sept, and Calle
Ugarte is occupied by Comisiones de San Luis, a foreign currency exchange company.
The Dionisio building must have been located at 310 Calle de Uguarte.
The only thing I can't figure out is that there seems to be a patch of ground between
the two story building where the photographer is located and the Dionisio building but
that doesn't show up on the map. The Curio shop and the Dionisio building don't have
a gap. They are butted up against each other.
So I think the picture was taken from the roof of the curio shop. The only other
possibility would be from the bank building, but in this case, you'd see the two story
curio shop in the foreground but you don't.
Today, the curio shop at the intersection of Calle Juarez, Calle 16 de Sept, and Calle
Ugarte is occupied by Comisiones de San Luis, a foreign currency exchange company.
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choir, at the back of the church, is made
of wood and is supported by two elegant
carved wood columns crowned by a wide
capital. The entrance door to the choir is
sealed for its protection but one can
admire the work on the door since it is
one of the original doors of the mission.
At the head of the altar is a panel with the
image of the Virgin of Guadalupe in a
finely carved wood and glass niche. The
entire building is seventeenth century
Mexican Baroque which includes the
Indian motifs.
of wood and is supported by two elegant
carved wood columns crowned by a wide
capital. The entrance door to the choir is
sealed for its protection but one can
admire the work on the door since it is
one of the original doors of the mission.
At the head of the altar is a panel with the
image of the Virgin of Guadalupe in a
finely carved wood and glass niche. The
entire building is seventeenth century
Mexican Baroque which includes the
Indian motifs.
Our Lady of Guadaloupe Church,
Juarez, Mexico in about 1905 (top) and
today (bottom), as seen along Calle de
Comercio, now called Ave de 16 de
Septiembre. imageshack.us/f/20/catedralvistadesdetelme.jpg/
Juarez, Mexico in about 1905 (top) and
today (bottom), as seen along Calle de
Comercio, now called Ave de 16 de
Septiembre. imageshack.us/f/20/catedralvistadesdetelme.jpg/
| How Don Solved the Puzzle |
| The Sauer Building - Avenida Juarez and Avenida 16 de Sept. Across from the museum is a building constructed in the 1920's and named after George D. Sauer, a merchant dealing in groceries, wines, liquors, cigarettes, and |
| import-exports. Sauer & Company existed at this site until 1934 and dealt in the beer and bottled drinks business in both Juarez and El Paso. In later years, this building housed the El Paso Trolley Company, Juarez Traction Co., El Paso Electric Co., and Southwest Telephone & Telegraph, all of which provided their services in Juarez. Medical offices, law firms, and public notaries continue to occupy the building. |
the photo was taken. Steve Jolley
N.B. I think it was from the second story of the building
across Av. Juarez from your location. See above. - Q. Gen.
*****
N.B. I think it was from the second story of the building
across Av. Juarez from your location. See above. - Q. Gen.
*****
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I think I have success, thanks to your map and this link:
www.ysletadelsurpueblo.org/tigua_trails.sstg?id=16&sub1=23&sub2=57!
From your map, I think the photo may have been taken on building #117 or #118, next
to the saloon (#116). According to the website above, the Mission is on the Plaza de
Armas (or, "just behind the plaza"). A few blocks away is the Customs House. I think
the photo was taken between the saloon and the Customs House.
Another possibility is #22 on your map, which is marked "Rest." I cannot tell if the the
saloon is on a street corner or not. I found the link by asking Google: Where is the
Mision de Guadalupe located in Juarez, Mexico.
I am curious what that odd-shaped building beside the Mission is, though. It is not
marked on your map.Thanks for the map. Have a Happy Fourth!
Rebecca Bare
www.ysletadelsurpueblo.org/tigua_trails.sstg?id=16&sub1=23&sub2=57!
From your map, I think the photo may have been taken on building #117 or #118, next
to the saloon (#116). According to the website above, the Mission is on the Plaza de
Armas (or, "just behind the plaza"). A few blocks away is the Customs House. I think
the photo was taken between the saloon and the Customs House.
Another possibility is #22 on your map, which is marked "Rest." I cannot tell if the the
saloon is on a street corner or not. I found the link by asking Google: Where is the
Mision de Guadalupe located in Juarez, Mexico.
I am curious what that odd-shaped building beside the Mission is, though. It is not
marked on your map.Thanks for the map. Have a Happy Fourth!
Rebecca Bare
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