Answer to Quiz #27 - September 18, 2005

Easy:  What state was this saloon located in?
Medium: What city was it located in?
Hard: What is the name of the street where it was located?
Photo submitted by Gwen Upton.
Click on thumbnail to see larger image.
Answer:

Albany, NY
Street Unknown, but might be Swan St. (see below)
There was more controversy about this quiz than I expected. Our readers came up with
some interesting alternatives to the solution I had dug up. While I was almost sure the
saloon was located in Albany, NY (for reasons described below), the possibility of
Sherburne, NY came up for discussion.

In researching this photo a couple of months ago, I wrote several rootswebs lists
asking for information on the Newton and Hatch families.  In doing so, I left a trail of
electronic bread crumbs that several of our readers picked up. This is fair, and even
recommended. It is an entirely legitimate to use someone else's prior research in
drawing conclusions about anything.

Both locations (Albany and Sherburne) are discussed below in more detail. Many thanks
to Rose Wellman and Robert McKenna for the extra research they did for this picture.
Rose is the Sherburne town historian, who contributed her knowledge of the new
building that she believes now sits on the site of the one shown in the picture.

After much thought, I believe the picture was taken in Albany for several reasons.

1.   As some readers pointed out, Sherburne is mainly a farming community. The
Newtons and the Hatches were prominent members of the community, but there is no
evidence that any of them owned a saloon.

2.   West State St., the proposed location in Sherburne, runs east-west, meaning the
buildings along the street face north or south as does the one in the photo. During the
winter, it might be possible that the buildings on the north side of the street to face into
the sun, but the picture does not seem to have been taken in the winter. Pearl and
Swans Sts., where many of the saloons were located in Albany, run approximately
north-south, parallel to the Hudson River.

3.   There are listings for both Newtons and Hatches who owned saloons in Albany
between 1885 and 1905. The directories from 1885, 1889, 1890, 1891, 1893, 1899,
and 1905 show the same saloons changing hands between the Newtons and the
Hatches during this period, although none of these years show them owning an
establishment together, nor of owning an establishment at a 161 address.
Albany, NY
The evidence that the photo was taken in Albany is largely taken from the city
directories. There are listings in the Albany directories of 1885, 1899, 1890, 1891,
1893, 1899, and 1905 for both a (John B., Albert, or Adsit) Newton who owned either
a saloon or a liquor store at the address 35 South Pearl St. In 1899, this establishment is
owned by a Frank M. Hatch, and the Newtons own the saloon next door at 41 South
Pearl. In 1905, the saloon was listed under the Newtons again, and Mr. Hatch had
moved his establishment to 15 Central Ave. At least in the directories listed on
Ancestry.com, there was never any establishment owned by either family at an address
with the street number 161.The only reference to this street number I could find was a
saloon at 161 S. Swan St. owned by a John Collins in 1893.

Please note that Pearl St. runs north-south parallel to and two blocks away from the
Hudson River. Swan St. is also parallel to the river, and about four blocks away.
Westerlo runs between Pearl and the river. See a map on Mapquest of the riverfront in
Albany at:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohist
ory=&location=wTIkXzAPMUdgXqA%2flXKGSVE6V2A%2banSCubD7l2V5vS6%2b6
2wDdHuj%2bEOD9fgrvAV0FNUUMFUEnPd3%2bqP%2bB1TqwGG0eMr5yPyWeRyA
5XQdnp%2bhemjitbvGoG0aGOUHo8LR01rW1zZGFcU%3d

1885 - Sampson & Davenport Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, (Clark & Hatch) refreshment saloon, 59 Hudson ave., h. 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, restaurant 35 S. Pearl St, h at Troy


1889 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, bartender, 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, saloon, 35 South Pearl, rms 93 Hudson avenue


1890 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, bartender, 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, saloon, 35 South Pearl, rms 93 Hudson avenue


1891 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, bartender, house 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, saloon, 35 South Pearl, house 69 Elm


1893 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, bartender, h. 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, saloon 35 S. Pearl St, h 114 do.

Liquors, Wines, etc. Retail
Newton, John B 35 South Pearl


1899 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, saloon 39 S. Pearl, h. 37 Westerlo
Newton, John B, liquors 41 S. Pearl St, house do.

Liquors, Wines, etc. Retail
Hatch, Frank M. 35 South Pearl (yes, numbers different)
Newton, J. B. 41 South Pearl


1905 - Sampson & Murdock Albany City Directory

Hatch, Frank M, saloon 15 Central av, h. 37 Westerlo
Newton Adsit saloon 39 S Pearl, rms do.
Newton Albert H saloon 35 S Pearl, rms 11 Lancaster
**********
Sherburne, NY
Memoirs of Erstus & Julia Newton & Genealogical Records of the Newton & Hatch
Families
by R.G. Newton. 187p. 1882

This book is a history of the Newton and Hatch families of the cities of Sherburne and
Norwich in Chenango County, NY. The book shows up in several print-on-demand
online bookstores. It was published in 1882. I have been trying to find someone with a
copy to find out what it says about the families, with no luck so far.

However, new information came in from Rose Wellman and Robert McKenna to
indicate the building was located at 161 West State St. (North Side) in Sherburne, NY.
Here is an excerpt from a story that Rose wrote on the history of the building that now
occupies this site. The excerpt is a quote from an article printed in the Sherburne
newspaper in 1882 on the completion of the present building:

The foundation for the Sanford building on Water Street (West State Street) is coming
along nicely and is nearly complete.  Soon it will partially shut out the light from the
back offices of the Sherburne newspaper offices, which are located on the third floor
over the drug store on North Main Street.  The owner, C H Sanford placed a box
containing documents and articles of interest to future generations in the cornerstone of
his building in May 1882. An item appeared in the local paper in 1883 regarding the
following facts:

Charles Sanford, veteran hardware merchant of Sherburne has transferred his place of
business to his newly built structure, situated on Water Street (West State), near the
bank corner building and facing Hotel Daniels. The building is elaborately described
as two-story, with a French mansard roof and a fine frontage of pressed red brick,
which has been laid in black mortise and limestone belted windowsills, water tables and
large show windows of plate glass.  The interior is tastefully finished on either side in
chestnut, with a red oak ceiling, boarded with oak and cherry laid alternately on a bias
and capped on either side with cherry mouldings.  Ample counters line both sides of
birch and cherry.  Located on the west side of the store and salesroom is the business
office.  The entire building is floored with fine sawed maple.  A small elevator is
available for store and shop room use only.  In an adjoining room a large elevator runs
from the cellar to the loft and is connected with each floor by sliding doorways
operated with weights.  The rear storeroom is designed as a general depot for the
receipt and discharge of stock in trade.  The cellar is floored with flagstones.

See map of State St. in Sherburne, NY at:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&formtype=addr
ess&searchtype=address&cat=&address=%5b37%2d83%5d%20W%20State%20St&cit
y=Sherburne&state=NY&zipcode=13460&searchtab=home

Sherburne & Norwich

Sherburne and Norwich were both on the Chenango Canal which operated from 1834
to 1876, from April to November each year. The opening of the canal cut the shipping
time from Binghamton to Albany from 9 days to 4 days. Its construction led to a
manufacturing boom in the Chenango Valley. The construction of a railroad in the
Chenango Valley after the American Civil War rendered the canal obsolete. It was
closed in 1878 by a vote of the state legislature. The two towns are still linked by the
railroad (now a Conrail line), that runs roughly parallel to Hwy 12 in that area.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenango_Canal

The existence of the canal or railroad would have allowed the delivery of fresh oysters
to the towns from Albany or other nearby cities on the shore of Lake Ontario or on the
Atlantic Coast.
Newton & Hatch Families of Sherburne

Both the Newton and Hatch families were among the first to settle Chenango County.
Joel and Timothy Hatch were brothers who settled a farm in 1791. Capt. William
NEWTON (born Colchester, Conn) arrived in about 1806. Over the years, the two
families produced many prominent members of the Sherburne community. These
included  Hubert A. Newton who graduated from Yale and became a professor of
mathematics at that college, and Julius W. Hatch a graduate of Hamilton College who
became a lecturer on astronomy there.

See
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nychenan/shr-ras2.htm for more information.
**********
Congratulations to our winners!
This quiz was pretty tough, so it you got as far as answering
the saloon was in NY, you get an E for effort.

Robert E. McKenna
Rose Wellman
Judy Cook
Melissa Brown
Rick McKinney
Gail Garwood
Maureen O'Connor
Dale Niesen
Marilyn Hamill-Stewart

(If your name has been omitted from the list of winners, it was unintentional.  Please let me know.)
If you have a picture you'd like us to feature a picture in a future quiz, please
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CFitzp@aol.com. If we use it, you will receive a free analysis of
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Quiz #27 Answer
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